Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.35]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25201 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:20:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.42]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28076 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:20:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root at localhost) by stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with X.500 id JAA17789; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:19:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com (uu6.psi.com [38.145.155.3]) by stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with SMTP id JAA17490; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:19:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA11139 for spencer at umich.edu; Fri, 16 Jan 98 09:16:28 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA08227 for judge-digest-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:32:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:32:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199801161332.IAA08227 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1527 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Friday, 16 January 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1527 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: BJCP newsletter Re: AHA 'Sponsorship' IPA category quandary Re: judge-digest V1 #1526 AHA listens and responds! Judge help for War of the Worts Weiss is Nice results, club-only competitions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Westemeier Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:44:12 -0500 Subject: BJCP newsletter GLASS, the semi-official, and occasionally reliable BJCP news agency, has just put another newsletter to press. It will be in your (physical) mailbox within the next two weeks if you're a BJCP member. Who's a BJCP member? Anyone who has taken the BJCP exam. If you're not a BJCP member, or if you just don't want to wait for the mail, you can obtain an electronic copy at the following URL: http://www.malz.com/reporter3.html The newsletter is sent to most members by bulk mail. That's VIA SNAIL MAIL in the USA (or, depending on where you live, either MIT SCHNECKEPOST or PAR ESCARGOT). If you live outside the USA, or if you have a mailing address that's incompatible with the USPS automated sorting software, you'll receive it with first class postage. If the electronic format suits your needs, please let us know about it (there's a form on the referenced page, or an e-mail to hopfen at malz will do) and we'll mark you down for electronic notification of future issues, saving a bit of money). In any case, you'll receive THIS issue on paper. The Editor - ----- Ed Westemeier --- E-mail: hopfen at malz.com Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalt's In wine, there is truth. In beer, strength. In water, bacteria. ------------------------------ From: Kelly Jones Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:16:01 -0800 Subject: Re: AHA 'Sponsorship' Amahl Turczyn , speaking for the AHA, wrote: >The term "sponsorship" is misleading--we don't really sponsor events, >even the club-only competitions, which we co-host with clubs. And yet the the AHA club-only competition web page (http://www.beertown.org/AHA/clubcomp.htm) states: "Each Club-Only Competition is sponsored by the AHA" ************************************************************ I realize that I should first take my complaint up with the contest organizers. Unfortunately, the AHA web page does not give any contact information for the organizers, just a shipping address for the bottles (which looks like a brewery address to me, and doesn't neccessarily have any connection with the club running the competition). I asked the AHA for information regarding whom to contact, but was not given this info. I was, however, told that the results would be mailed out this week. Has the AHA been sitting on these? Is anyone out there from 'Urban Knaves of Grain' reading this, and could give me an address (preferably email) of the contest organizer? Kelly Hillsboro, OR ------------------------------ From: Robert Paolino Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:09:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: IPA category quandary Bryan Gros described having grouped IPAs into English ales and now realising that most of the entries will be American IPAs. Yes, the variety of hop is an important distinction, but also (and I might be putting foot in mouth here) the _amount_ of hop flavour and aroma. I'm not sure how you objectively quantify that as you can with bitterness (and even then the perception of bitterness can be different for two beers with the same IBU but varying in other characteristics), but you know it when you taste/smell it, and I _think_ you can separate that admittedly vague concept of "quantity" from the characteristics of the hop. Maybe I would be on safer ground by merely calling it the assertiveness of the hop flavour and aroma, although that still goes back at least in part to the hop variety. If you look at IPAs from the UK (okay, don't just look at them, taste them). You could call, say, Fuller's IPA or Tolly Cobbold IPA hoppy, but not hoppy in the same way as Celebration. Tolly Cobbold, for example, has more hop aroma than Fuller's, but it's a subtle aroma--nothing at all like being smacked in the face with Columbus--and maybe Fuller's is more bitter than TC.... but a homebrew entry that clones one of them successfully isn't going to be so easily evaluated if the judge has just scored a Liberty clone, nor will it be easy to pick a winner between a (well-judged) Fuller's clone with that Liberty clone--you'd be looking at a BOS kind of question within the style category. But rather than a discussion of whether there should be an American IPA category, what should Bryan do with a competition just shy of a month away? I don't think there should be a problem in fairness (as in "changing the rules" after the initial announcement), even now, to create that extra judging (sub)category under American ales. If, as Bryan said, "people are asking," tell them that you've added a new American ale/AIPA subcategory and let them decide whether to enter it there. If people have already sent beers, how big a competition is it expected to be (or, more to the point, how many IPA entries are there)? Are there too many IPAs to make it practical to contact entrants to give them that option. You might not even have to contact _all_ of the IPA entrants--if the recipe shows the classic English hopping, there doesn't seem to be a need to ask that entrant if s/he wants to transfer out of the English ale category. If changing the category and contacting people isn't practical (but don't forget that some of the entrants are initiating the calls already), I know what I'd do as an entrant. Knowing that my Celebration clone would get scored lower as an IPA subcategory of English ales, I'd simply enter it as an American Pale Ale, which after all it would be. Someone _might_ fault it for too-high gravity, but that's less a risk than the almost-certain slam for American hops. Good luck with whatever solution you decide. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino rpaolino at earth.execpc.com Madison One person's depiction of the Great Taste of the Midwest: "It's not a movie theatre; it's not a puppet show; IT'S A BEER FESTIVAL!" Dylan Swanson (Age 5) ------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bergsman Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:16:01 -0800 Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1526 Amahl Turczyn wrote: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:33:19 -0700 > Subject: Re: AHA Sanctioning > > In response to Kelly Jones' query about AHA sponsorship vs. sanctioning, > I'd like to clarify the latter term. Sanctioning provides organizers of > beer competitions with all the information they need to hold a > competition. We also advertize the contest on our website calendar, and > in Zymurgy magazine, as well as publish the results (best of show > winner, number of entries, etc.) in the magazine. A kit is sent to them [snip] > We feel that though we make this information available to organizers, > the competitions are theirs--they can use or not use what we give them, > including style guidelines. If participants in AHA sanctioned > competition have a complaint with the competition, such as not getting > prizes or score sheets in a reasonable time afterwards, we also try to > solve disputes as diplomatically as we can, but we don't feel it's our > role to police the events. When even the subscribers to this forum need an explanation of what AHA "sanctioning" means, imagine what the general public must think. Why are they mislead? Maybe it is the term "sanction". Here is the definition of that word: > 1sanc-tion \'sa{nj}(k)-shen\ n > [MF or L; MF, fr. L sanction-, sanctio, fr. sanctus, pp. of sancire > to make holy -- more at SACRED] > (15c) > 1: a formal decree; esp: an ecclesiastical decree > 2a obs: a solemn agreement: OATH > 2b: something that makes an oath binding > 3: the detriment, loss of reward, or coercive intervention annexed > to a violation of a law as a means of enforcing the law > 4a: a consideration, principle, or influence (as of conscience) that > impels to moral action or determines moral judgment > 4b: a mechanism of social control for enforcing a society's standards > 4c: explicit or official permission or ratification: APPROBATION > 5: an economic or military coercive measure adopted usu. by several > nations in concert for forcing a nation violating international law > to desist or yield to adjudication > > 2sanction vt sanc-tioned; sanc-tion-ing \-sh(e-)ni{nj}\ > (1778) > 1: to make valid or binding usu. by a formal procedure (as ratification) > 2: to give effective or authoritative approval or consent to > syn see APPROVE (From an electronic Webster's). As you can see, if one knows the meaning of the word, one will infer that the sanctioning body is making a statement about the quality of the competition. The AHA isn't the only one at fault here, since the BJCP does the same thing (they use a different word but the effect is the same). Neither organization has any enforcement power over the competition. Maybe we should consider a different term to better reflect the reality of the situation. Suggestions? Comments? - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb ------------------------------ From: Randy Paul Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:45:32 -0500 Subject: AHA listens and responds! This is just a short note to recognize Brian and Amahl's recent responses on this list from AHA. One of the reasons that AHA has become such a ripe target over the last few years has to be their silence. True, we may have liked something more or different in what Brian and Amahl had to say. But, before sending your next complaint about AHA to this list, take a moment to look at it and make sure the flames are low (as they have been, lately) so we can start to engage them. If AHA is starting to listen, lets encourage them. The next step could be real change! - -- Randy ------------------------------ From: folsom at ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:55:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: Judge help for War of the Worts HELP! 200 entries came in today from our drop off points, which puts us well over last year's total, with about 360 entries in. If you have considered coming to judge, please, it's not too late. you can email me, or our judge coordinator, Nate Brese, at rahneb at rohmhaas.com, or call me at (215) 343-6851. If you have alrady signed up to Judge, please show up! At present it appears we'll have 22 categories of 12-20 entries each. Ouch! Cheers, Al Folsom ------------------------------ From: stmckenna at amoco.com (Stephen T. McKenna) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:35:57 -0600 Subject: Weiss is Nice results, club-only competitions We've seen a few of these lately: > "I entered a beer in the "Weiss is Nice" club-only comp back in > October... I have yet to receive any score sheets from this > competition, nor have I seen the results posted here or anywhere." And also some for the Bitter Mania in December. OK folks: I'm the guy who ran the Weiss is Nice. We judged the competition on November 1. All the results were faxed to the AHA on November 2. The scoresheets and entry forms were mailed to the AHA around November 4. (Sadly, I did not make copies first. Mistake #1.) I spoke to the AHA on the phone and was told not to make any announcements-- they preferred to do that themselves. At the time I spoke to them, they already had the results in hand. (I followed this advice. Mistake #2.) Since then I've seen a steady trickle of Judgenet postings and private E-mail asking about individual entries, and I've been replying to the entrants privately. As late as last week, entrants hadn't heard anything from the AHA. For what it's worth, the entry fee checks apparently haven't been cashed either. So here are the results of the Weiss is Nice: 1st place: Bill Aimonetti, Albuquerque Dukes of Ale (weizen) 2nd place: Preston Merrick, Central Florida Homebrewers (weizen) 3rd place: Ben Baer, High Plains Draughters (Berliner weisse) There were 49 entries. I have all the individual scores, but I have no contact info for the entrants. (Since the AHA was going to handle the scoresheet mailing, we coded the names but not the addresses into our database. Mistake #3.) If you'd like to know how your entry scored, E-mail me (stmckenna at amoco.com) or call me (630-305-0554) and I'll look it up for you. My advice to clubs interested in running one of these in the future: do it. It's a rather different experience from running a broad-spectrum competition. We enjoyed every part about it except the 2 /1/2 month aftermath. But CYA and don't make mistakes #1, #2, and #3. If you can, try to convince the AHA to let you mail the scoresheets to the entrants rather than waiting for them to do it. It's more work for you, but you've got all the stuff right there and it's more fair to the entrants than waiting for the AHA to get around to it. If I ever run one of these again, I'm going to mail out all the scoresheets myself, then mail the AHA a bunch of preprinted mailing labels so they can mail their own letter with minimal work if they want to. My advice to entrants: don't stop entering. Pray that the organizer has followed the advice above in case the AHA is slow. Hang onto the contact info for the place you sent the beer and for the club that ran the competition. If you don't hear anything in a reasonable amount of time, call/E-mail them. (Preferably the club, since the shipping location is often a store or brewery which had little to do with actually running the competition.) Chances are the organizer is as mad about the situation as you are. Steve McKenna for the (now disgraced) Urban Knaves of Grain ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1527 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.