Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA15762 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:06:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA17837 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:06:45 -0500 (EST) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 02/01/99 - 02/02/99 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 01:01:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Status: RO --Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: Digest for the period 01/30/99 - 01/31/99 (Lyle C. Brown) JudgeNet Monthly Information Posting (judge-owner) BJCP Reporter, finances, etc. (Phil & Sara Doersam) BJCP Newsletter (Walz, Greg) publications (Bryan L. Gros) Newsletter (Steve Ashton) comments, etc. (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_aka_Dr._Beer=AE=22?=) --Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC86045F9BF; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:57:28 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id UAA08481 for postmaster at synchro.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:55:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from x13.boston.juno.com (x13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.27]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08455 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:54:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from beerking1 at juno.com) by x13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2B9WC78; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:55:37 EST To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:52:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 01/30/99 - 01/31/99 Message-ID: <19990131.205255.-168693.1.beerking1 at juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-42,49-52,55-57 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lyle C. Brown" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Lynhbrew at aol.com asked me: >Lyle, I would be interested in knowing where to subscribe to a rare >beer club. >Is it public? You can answer here or send to LYNHBREW at AOL.COM. Thanks I would rather not take up bandwidth here with a "sales" pitch, but will gladly send info to anyone who asks. Martin Lodahl asked about Subject: Paid Subscriptions > >>That may have been what was stated in the first issue, but in the >mailing >>I received before the first issue of the points report (the >predecessor >>to the newsletter)... > >As an aside, the points report and the newsletter aren't related. >They're >completely separate communications. But back to my real question ... > >> ... it was promised to be published quarterly. This >>mailing promised a quarterly update on points record and important >news >>and events in the program. >> >>Ironically enough, the purpose of that mailing was to solicit PAID >>SUBSCRIPTIONS. I paid for a subscription, on the assumption that (as >>stated) only those who paid the subscription would get the >newsletter. > > >Lyle, can you be a little more specific about this? I've been on the >BJCP's >Board since before it was a Board (i.e., before The Great Schism), and >don't >recall anything remotely like this, but it's always possible my >memory's >simply faulty. When was this mailing? Was it signed? What region >were you >living in then? > The first ever mailing (other than exam results) I got directly from the BJCP was a few years back (I think before the split). It was the first points report, and request for subscriptions. I call it the predecessor to the newsletter because it was a year or 2 (maybe more?) before the newsletter showed up. I paid for what was then advertised to be a quarterly points summary and information bullletin. I think it was over a year before I received my next point summary. I lived in Virginia Beach at the time. My memory may be failing me, I have been a judge since 1986. It certainly could have been longer ago than I am stating, but I KNOW there was a subscription paid for a quarterly report, which never materialized. Lyle C. Brown ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 00:00:04 -0500 From: judge-owner Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: JudgeNet Monthly Information Posting Message-ID: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message The JudgeNet website is at http://synchro.com/judge. The JudgeNet archives are maintained by Spencer Thomas and can be found at http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge. To subscribe to JudgeNet, send a message to mailserver at synchro.com with the following line in the message subject or body : subscribe judge The mailing list system supports a number of commands, which are executed by writing to mailserver at synchro.com with the command in the message subject or body. The following commands are available : STATUS judge (Returns your current account settings) MEMBERS judge (Returns a list of the list members) SUSPEND judge (Temporarily suspend your subscription) RESUME judge (Resume a suspended subscription) SET judge DIGEST (Enables receipt of multipart/mixed digests) SET judge DIGESTMD (Enables receipt of multipart/digest digests) SET judge DIGESTTEXT (Enables receipt of text/plain digests -DEFAULT-) SET judge NODIGEST (Disables receipt of digests) SET judge MAIL (Enables receipt of individual messages) SET judge PASSWORD="mypassword" (Changes your password) SET judge DETAILS="new details" (Changes your published details) SET judge REC="address at host" (Changes your receipt address) Please send the name of the list (judge) immediately after the command itself. For example : SET judge REC="postmaster at synchro.com" Don't forget to send send the command to mailserver at synchro.com. To post a message to JudgeNet, send your message to judge at synchro.com. If you have any queries, please contact the list maintainer: judge-owner at synchro.com. --Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC86095FC9C; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 01:25:21 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id BAA04602 for postmaster at synchro.com; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:23:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA04593 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:23:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap at localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA22206 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:24:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from lvx-nv16-28.ix.netcom.com(207.92.171.156) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022196; Mon Feb 1 00:23:41 1999 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990131222304.016a3230 at popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: dicepro at popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:23:04 -0800 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: Phil & Sara Doersam Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: BJCP Reporter, finances, etc. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Please excuse the length of this post, but I have been lurking for a long time and need to get all of this off my chest. Up until June of last year, my wife and I published a brewspaper called Southern Draft Brew News. Because of that business, I never posted to Judge Net to avoid ruffling any feathers. But now I'm free to do so, so here goes. Jay Hersh writes: >Competition and Exam Schedules change constantly. As soon as we put a >newsletter together and got it mailed it would be out of date. I disagree. When a club sets a date for their competition, it is rare that they are forced to change that date. In those few instances where they do make a change, a smart judge would have called/written/e-mailed prior to the event to let the organizer know their intentions of attending. This is one of the lamest excuses I have heard yet for not putting out a newsletter. >If you really want to voice an opinion join a committee. Excellent point. There is no room for whiners and plenty of room for helpers. That is one of the reasons I judge beer -- to help the organizers out of the bind they usually find themselves in -- too few qualified judges for the number of entries to be judged. How many BJCP judges know what committees currently exist? Who is on them? Are there any vacancies? I personally have no idea. But if basic information such as this were in a quarterly newsletter, we would all have a better understanding of what's going on in our organization. > So while it looks like we have a lot of cash right now, the BJCP is a >pyramid financing scheme (like social security). As long as we grow we have >ongoing/increasing funds. If participation levels out or decreases we will >need to rely on cash reserves, or start charging annual dues. Publishing a >newsletter just for the sake of it when there is no substantive info to >communicate seems to be to be counter to what long term fiscal planning >might dictate. We have a lot of cash right now? Good, I hope so, but I have not seen a financial report since the May 15, 1998 mailing that included our balance sheet as of December 31, 1997. Also, to say that there is no substantive info to publish is complete crap! Excellent information such as: exam schedule, competition schedule, competition results (possibly only the size & date of event), contact info for elected & appointed officials, annual meeting date and location or results of said meeting, financial updates and annual budget information, election coverage, committee information, statistics on our organization (# of exams given in last quarter, # of judges broken down by rank, etc.), etc. What we don't need is a half page cartoon. If the BJCP Reporter has enough info for 2-pages (1 piece of paper), then that's enough to publish and mail. However, given the amount of information available, I'd be surprised if we can't generate enough for 2-pages, half-a-page of which is used for the mailing information. Robert Paolino writes: >Agreed. If there's nothing to report during the year, a simple newsletter >sent with the annual points report just to say that BJCP is still around >keeping records would be fine. If there were nothing to say, I'd also agree. But I can't imagine there is nothing to say about the BJCP. Maybe we should dump Judge Net if that's how you feel :-) David Houseman writes: >Au contraire, the BJCP Style Guide Committee is VERY active. We're about >two styles short of a complete new style guide that will be assembled and >passed to the board for approval (hopefully quickly) and posting on the BJCP >Web Site. This was to be completed last year but volunteers over email is >pretty slow, but quite effective given the talents involved. Sounds like vital information to pass on to the membership in the Reporter (not the entire style guide, but the fact that it has changed). It should be the responsibility of each regional rep to ensure that every judge in their region know about such major BJCP changes such as the style changes. This could be accomplished by e-mail, telephone (if local) or by contacting each club in their region to ensure the info is passed along to the judges in each club through the club officers. Stephen Johnson writes >were at work. However, I DO think that some level of input from the >membership would give the committee members a better idea of the >membership's opinions. I don't think that being on a committee should be >the only way for the majority of us to voice opinions on what goes on with >the BJCP or its committees. I agree. We're not talking about committee members asking for our vote, just allow the general membership the opportunity to give their input. If the committee members ignore you, don't get mad, join a committee! > As a relatively new judge, I have found out >much more about the goings on of the BJCP through this forum than through >the organization itself, and see that lack of communication directly from >the parent organization as a real weakness. Absolutely. I can't think of any other organization that encourages you to study your ass off for several weeks or months to prepare for a $50 exam that lasts 3 hours (causing severe hand cramping) and then can't communicate with you unless you subscribe to Judge Net. The annual points mailing is nice and should be included with an issue of the Reporter to save postage costs. If anyone knows of another such organization, please let me know so I can be sure and not join it! Luckily, I love beer and brewing enough to put up with this from the BJCP, but I don't think most people would -- certainly not those considering taking the test for the first time. >ME: In my mind, the lack of a regular newsletter is one sure way to see >that participation will level out or decrease over the long haul. One >important way of increasing membership is giving members a good reason to >join in the first place. You sure hit that one on the head. Homebrewers love to read stuff. They save back issues and refer to them for years to come. Without a regular publishing of the Reporter, we are surely doomed to extinction. > I would be more than >willing to pay for an ad to the BJCP Reporter as a way of generating >exposure for some special event such as our annual competition or an >upcoming event such as the visit we have planned from Ray Daniels in April. Excellent idea! One of the biggest problems with organizing a competition is getting the word out to brewers to encourage them to enter your event. Of course for this to work, the Reporter has to have a firm publishing schedule with deadlines that are met, without fail. Otherwise, clubs will waste their money advertising events that have already taken place. Maybe the regional reps (or someone they appoint) should solicit ads from homebrew clubs in their region rather than waiting for them to come knocking on our door (I can tell you from experience selling ad space in Southern Draft that most of the ads came from me soliciting, not the other way around). This is a great idea that really should be pursued. I would be willing to help in any way I could to put this into action. > I would also be willing to pay some annual dues if I knew it would help >support a regular newsletter or some administrative staff position to help >with processing points from competitions. However, until we BJCP members >see good reasons to pay some extra money, I'd find it hard to support such >a notion. >Finally, if over time such a publication begins to eat into our financial >stability in a scenario that Jay presents, then let's cross that bridge >when we come to it and start charging regular dues if that's what it will >take to stay afloat. I'm with ya on this point as well. However, I'd need to see a year or more of on time Reporters and solid financial reasons before I'd agree to dues. I want the BJCP to survive, and if that means dues then so be it. However, I can't imagine lack of funding becoming an issue until possibly sometime next century. I just recently learned of a money making area that is no longer used: pins for recognized and certified judges. I paid $22 back in 1992 for my recognized pin and a similar amount the following year for my certified pin. Many new judges are completely unaware that these pins ever existed. They are a great way to show off the fact that you are a BJCP Beer Judge -- a pretty cool thing in the eyes of most people. Why can't we revive this excellent program and make some money? One last point. The reporting of our finances and non-profit tax information to all members needs to regularly occur as outlined in the By-Laws. By not doing so, suspicions are raised (hopefully needlessly) about our assets and tax status. There is too much money at stake here (enough for temptation to come into play) to do otherwise. Thank you for wading through my ramblings. Phil Doersam Las Vegas, Nevada BJCP Certified and GABF Beer Judge --Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC86195FD8A; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:52:39 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA02032 for postmaster at synchro.com; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:49:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from okpt01.okpgh.com (sgi-gw.okpgh.com [209.166.188.33] (may be forged)) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01953 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:48:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by OKPT01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1C9M4RBR>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:54:38 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Walz, Greg" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: BJCP Newsletter Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:54:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO IMHO, the "BJCP Reporter" newsletter is being done as a benefit of BJCP membership, primarily to keep informed those judges who do not have Internet access and can't link up to the home page. Persons with Internet access really don't need a newsletter - the news on the homepage (and oftentimes this forum) will always be more current. True, most homebrew clubs have newsletters - but they also charge yearly dues. With most non-profit organizations that publish newsletters, the cost to put out the newsletter is usually on the order of 70% - 80% or more of the total dues income. Ed Westemeier's estimate of about $0.50 per member per newsletter is right on target - and a very good price as well; one that takes into account the fact that 100% of the work involved in putting it out is done by volunteers. Back in 1995-6 when we were hammering out the Bylaws, we talked at length about the issue of annual dues. I voiced my opinion that the BJCP shouldn't charge dues, as such, for the maintenance of active judge status, since this should be covered by the test fee for as long as the judge remains active. I still feel this way. Unfortunately, if we want a regularly-published (i.e., monthly or bi-monthly) newsletter, sooner or later we will be forced to begin charging annual dues. I, for one, don't think it's worth it when you can get the necessary news or information from the home page or by dropping an e-mail message to your rep. I am personally unaware of and haven't seen any solicitation or mention of "voluntary subscriptions" to a newsletter since I started with the BJCP about three years ago. I really don't think "voluntary subscriptions" are a good idea for a number of reasons. So there are really only two logical choices - annual dues and a regular newsletter, or keeping things the way they are (points statement free once a year and newsletters whenever we can). Cheers, Greg Walz Mid-Atlantic Rep, BJCP Board Pittsburgh, PA gwalz at okpgh.com --Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC86205FD97; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:28:47 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA12538 for postmaster at synchro.com; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:27:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu (nak.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.206.21]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12409 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:26:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from sensitivity (ucbvscohn.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.232.84]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA14229 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:27:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990201092113.00a6c910 at spectacle.berkeley.edu> X-Sender: bgros at spectacle.berkeley.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:27:26 -0800 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "Bryan L. Gros" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: publications In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO I agree with Dave Houseman's comments about using JudgeNet and/or the web page for some "official" comments from the BJCP to membership. While Bill Giffen's questions often are presented somewhat antagonistically, I almost never see the questions answered. Or that they were answered by the regional rep offline, but what about the rest of us who are interested? And I would agree with others that sending out more issues of the newsletter is a good idea. Perhaps this JudgeNet could be used as a call for submissions. Many of us write monthly articles for club newsletters, and those could easilty be sent to the editor for republishing in the BJCP newseltter. Jay made some good points about publishing committee discussion, but some committee report is surely needed. At least a listing of what committees are active, what committees are seeking members. And when a committee finishes with a project, like the scoresheet, there is nothing wrong with a report summarizing some of the discussion, the major points, what decisions were made (i.e. why the points for aroma was increased) and why, and what ideas were rejected and why. Any disagreement could be addressed the next time the committee meets. It might even encourage more committee participation. Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Organizer, 1999 National Bay Area Brew Off http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm --Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC86265FDD5; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:25:09 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id SAA17103 for postmaster at synchro.com; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:23:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from MetMtaG2.metlife.com (ms2.metlife.com [204.146.159.10]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16974 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:22:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by MetMtaG2.metlife.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 8525670B.00810B6B ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:29:30 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: METLIFE at METLIFENET From: "Steve Ashton" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-ID: <8525670B.00810A58.00 at MetMtaG2.metlife.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:23:37 -0500 Subject: Newsletter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO Jay writes: To my knowledge there are no/few committees active right now. Dave writes: Au contraire, the BJCP Style Guide Committee is VERY active. We're about two styles short of a complete new style guide that will be assembled and passed to the board for approval (hopefully quickly) and posting on the BJCP Web Site. This was to be completed last year but volunteers over email is pretty slow, but quite effective given the talents involved. Dave Houseman I think this is enough to say we don't know what the hell is going on in an organization that we support in any of a number of ways. We shouldn't have to volunteer in order to know what is going on with the BJCP. I'm not suggesting that non-committee members be asked for input while a committee is still working but just let us know what the progress is. By the way, I've never been told that there were any committee's seeking volunteers, perhaps a newsletter would be a great way to let people know. I don't know what qualifications are needed (if any) to be on a committee. My point is that there is a ton of information to be disseminated to the membership and it is too easy to loose track of the organization over a years time. Even routine info will help to keep people interested and eventually create more interest. Robert: I already get it once in my email, why would I want it in my postal mailbox... and why should we subject anyone else to it? There are a lot of people who don't get this and hopefully over a three month period something worthwhile will have been submitted. If you feel that way, then why do you subscribe? Steve Ashton --Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.3.1018) id SYNC86315FE28; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:02:16 -0500 Received: (from root at localhost) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id XAA26029 for postmaster at synchro.com; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:00:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by airsupply.harvard.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25908 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-out-2.tiac.net (mail-out-2.tiac.net [199.0.65.13]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19812 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:00:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from drbeer at doctorbeer.com) Received: from drbeer (p59.block2.tc1.state.MA.tiac.com [206.119.246.60]) by mail-out-2.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA23043 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:03:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from drbeer at doctorbeer.com) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:03:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902012303.SAA23043 at mail-out-2.tiac.net> X-Sender: drbeer at pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_aka_Dr._Beer=AE=22?=" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Subject: comments, etc. Apparently-To: judge at synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Status: RO >From Bob P: > in reality most people >> will take the exam more than once, but that cost is reduced on retakes). > >_MOST_ people? yes, Most people. We have had several people score over a 90 on their first try. I even know one personally (his being a chemical Engineer, absolutely anal retentive and well traveled helped a lot). >Well, this isn't exactly true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there >fees for sanctioning (recognising, recording, registering, whatever) >competitions? Testing fees aren't the sole source of revenue. My understanding is that sanctioning fees are minimal, and comprise a very small part of our total income, certainly not sufficient to sustain operations. >From Dave H. >Au contraire, the BJCP Style Guide Committee is VERY active. We're glad to hear this. I hadn't heard much about this being busy working on other things. I look forward to seeing the results. >From: Stephen Johnson Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:06:35 -0600 >hard work goes on at that level. However, I would like to think that those >committee members are making their good judgments based on what they feel >represent the thoughts of the BJCP as a whole. I, for one, would not feel >that it were my place to second guess a committee's decisions while they committees don't operate in a vaccuum. The people on them are typically very active and know lots of other judges. My experience is that they exercise their own judgement based on their experiences and contacts with others. >were at work. However, I DO think that some level of input from the >membership would give the committee members a better idea of the >membership's opinions. I don't think that being on a committee should be As I said in my original post, nothing committees do is frozen forever. A new scoresheet has been put out. It is being used. People are developing experience and opinions about it. If it comes to pass that the membership is not pleased with the scoresheet then feedback can be passed to the board who will constitute a new committee to revise or re-design the sheet. There has been some discussion of creating a form to evaluate the sheet, but of course agreeing on the content of the form (wording of questions, etc...) will probably require another committee. > >ME: In my mind, the lack of a regular newsletter is one sure way to see >that participation will level out or decrease over the long haul. One >important way of increasing membership is giving members a good reason to >join in the first place. Our homebrewing club has been putting together a >monthly newsletter for almost 3 years now, and have managed to do so by >charging annual dues and a minimal amount for advertising from some of our >local businesses (brewpubs and supply shops). The newsletter is always so Ed Westmeier can look for an article from you in his email for inclusion in the next newsletter? Not to be combative, but there are a lot of people saying "we" when what they really mean is "you" i.e. those who have donated their time and energy. As I've said to Bill G. (who started all this BS), don't just complain. Do something about it. you want a newsletter then create the content for it. So far Ed has published everything submitted to him. Jay --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalt's --Next_Part_SYNC86335FE60--