Subject: Digest for the period 1/13/02 - 1/14/02 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:02:19 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC448141AEF1" --Next_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: West Coast Stout (Houseman, David L) BJCP Exam (David Houseman) West coast stouts (rpaolino`at`execpc.com) Achel (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?=) Paul Gatza and Mark Tumarkin's announcements (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?=) --Next_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1" --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from eamail1-out.unisys.com ([192.61.61.99]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC446641AC15 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:17:28 -0500 Received: from us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com (us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com [192.61.145.102]) by eamail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24780 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:17:18 GMT Received: by us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:17:25 -0600 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980EA02D`at`USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: West Coast Stout Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:16:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Why isn't there a competition style for West Coast Stout? There certainly could be. The styles currently in the competition style guideline are there because of several factors such as the history with these styles and their popularity with home brewers entering them in competitions. CAP was added after Jeff Renner took it upon himself to revive this style, write about it, and make it popular amongst home brewers. There are a number of legitimate styles (well the legitimate may be debatable) such as Rye and Lite Rye, Caribbean Lager, and perhaps West Coast Stout that aren't in the style guide for competitions although some home brewers may make them. Is every style that's regionalized by the addition of locally popular hops a new style? Perhaps if that becomes popular enough for home brewers to brew them and enter them into competitions. Until then a highly Cascade hopped Sweet or Foreign Stout can always be entered into the Specialty category. When competitions start receiving several of these for a competition, it would be a good time to make it it's own sub-style. And any competition can add locally defined styles of interest to the local club or brewer. Do it. Talk up West Coast Stout for the SOFB as a new style or category. But a definition of this style needs to be written and published for both the sake (that not Sake, Bruce) of the brewers and the judges. I would ask that if Randy or anyone takes on this task that they create the style description in the form of the current style guide. Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.84]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC446641AC40 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:54:03 -0500 Received: from user-2inikec.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.81.204] helo=winxp) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16PmxL-0006rp-00; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 07:54:00 -0800 Message-ID: <000b01c19c4a$78e79380$0100a8c0`at`winxp> Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" From: "David Houseman" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: BJCP Exam Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:53:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message This is a reminder that there will be a BJCP exam offered in West Chester, PA on Sunday, March 10th, 1 pm, at the Iron Hill Brewery and Restaurant. Those who wish to take this exam must pre-register with David Houseman (housemanfam`at`earthlink.net or 610-458-0743 and provide a $10 deposit). Dave Houseman SE PA --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from out0.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net ([169.207.1.78]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC447541AD62 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:22:43 -0500 Received: from nm3.voyager.net (coremail.core.com [169.207.3.95]) by out0.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.11.4/8.11.4/1.7) with ESMTP id g0E0Msg20450 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:22:54 -0600 (CST) Received: by nm3.voyager.net (Postfix, from userid 33) id 33BC217C9F; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:21:17 -0600 (CST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: CoreCommMail From: rpaolino`at`execpc.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: Subject: West coast stouts Message-Id: <20020114002117.33BC217C9F`at`nm3.voyager.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:21:17 -0600 (CST) X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message > From: Lyle C. Brown Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:25:18 -0500 > > Randy Paul writes: > > > I'm curious why there is no category for West Coast Stouts? How > > have these > > entries been faring as specialty/experimental (quite different > > competing > > styles), as Porters (wrong roasted malt character), or as Stouts > > (wrong > > hops)? > > One might beg the question of what Randy considers the attributes of a > "West Coast Stout" to be. > > Seems to me we have plenty of varieties of stouts in the subcategories. > Only thing I can think of would be use of West Coast hops. And _lots_ of them. It would be the stout equivalent of American Brown (or at least American Brown before that description got tamed down a little bit. But the west coast isn't the only place you'll find such a thing. Three Floyds (in scenic Munster, Indiana, for those outside the midwest who may not know the brewery) has one that's on it's way to being a NW stout. Now go have a beer, eh --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from celticweb.com ([204.193.152.67]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC447641AE0E for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:56:48 -0500 Received: from jsh.doctorbeer.com [206.15.136.243] by celticweb.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.08) id AAD95176024A; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:56:41 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20020113204418.00ab7640`at`pop.doctorbeer.com> X-Sender: drbeer`at`doctorbeer.com at pop.doctorbeer.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:49:37 -0500 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?= Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Achel In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message > >Apparently, the one Belgian Trappist Monestaries that was not making >beer in the recent past has started making beer commericially (Achel >I think it is). > >Has anyone had their beers? What are they like? I know they sell >only locally, but there are travels among this fellowship and I was >curious. I've had them in 2000 and again in 2001. They are only available at the brewpub itself which is in the town of Hamont/Achel almost literally on the Belgian/Dutch border. As for the beers they were pleasant but uninspiring. Basically a single, a dubble and a tripel that were clean and reasonably true to style except that for my taste they were over hopped. The pub itself is nothing fancy. Basically a portion of an old builing (factory or brick farm barn) that has been renovated with a brick interior courtyard built outside it. Seems to be less of an attraction to ultra zymophiles, and more of a regional/local attraction being in relatively flat part of the country where cycilng is very popular and I got the impression it is also seeking to be a way station for cyclists. If you plan to go to Maastricht or other things in that region it's an OK stop. I wouldn't recommend it as a mandatory pilgrimage :-). Jay H (aka Dr. Beer) Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from celticweb.com ([204.193.152.67]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC447641AE10 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:56:50 -0500 Received: from jsh.doctorbeer.com [206.15.136.243] by celticweb.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.08) id AADC5176024A; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:56:44 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20020113205048.00ac8c70`at`pop.doctorbeer.com> X-Sender: drbeer`at`doctorbeer.com at pop.doctorbeer.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:04:47 -0500 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?= Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Paul Gatza and Mark Tumarkin's announcements In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I welcome the news from Paul that the AHA will begin cross linking to the BJCP and routinely including BJCP sanctioned competitions in their publications and listings. This is definitely the type of positive action that demonstrates the type of good intentions myself and other skeptics look for as a sign of detente between the two organizations. It's also a good start as it certainly poses little organizational burden on the BJCP with repsect to cost or implementational burden. I also welcome Mark Tumarkin's announcement regarding recognition of BJCP acheivements at the AHA. I was probably one of the last people to have been recognized in this manner when I received my Master's Pin. I personally thought it was a nice touch since it meant something to me to receive the recognition at the Conference at the same time as other friends and peers received theirs. I think that it will probably be something that other future recipients would be appreciative of, and it too is demonstrative of positive efforts by the AHA. I'd almost say I regret these weren't announced a little sooner since it might have precluded the thread with regard to the relationship between the AHA and BJCP, but actually I think it's good that the thread occurred. It's clear that there are BJCP members and readers of this list that were unaware of certain past history that learned a little about what has transpired. Perhaps there was even some link between the discussion and the announcements. Hopefully there will be more such positive developments. Jay Hersh Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1-- --Next_Part_SYNC448141AEF1-- Subject: Digest for the period 1/13/02 - 1/14/02 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:02:19 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC448141AEF1" --Next_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: West Coast Stout (Houseman, David L) BJCP Exam (David Houseman) West coast stouts (rpaolino`at`execpc.com) Achel (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?=) Paul Gatza and Mark Tumarkin's announcements (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?=) --Next_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1" --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from eamail1-out.unisys.com ([192.61.61.99]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC446641AC15 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:17:28 -0500 Received: from us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com (us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com [192.61.145.102]) by eamail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24780 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:17:18 GMT Received: by us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:17:25 -0600 Message-ID: <2AC56C48182B4349AB1906257952AF980EA02D`at`USTR-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com> From: "Houseman, David L" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: RE: West Coast Stout Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:16:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Why isn't there a competition style for West Coast Stout? There certainly could be. The styles currently in the competition style guideline are there because of several factors such as the history with these styles and their popularity with home brewers entering them in competitions. CAP was added after Jeff Renner took it upon himself to revive this style, write about it, and make it popular amongst home brewers. There are a number of legitimate styles (well the legitimate may be debatable) such as Rye and Lite Rye, Caribbean Lager, and perhaps West Coast Stout that aren't in the style guide for competitions although some home brewers may make them. Is every style that's regionalized by the addition of locally popular hops a new style? Perhaps if that becomes popular enough for home brewers to brew them and enter them into competitions. Until then a highly Cascade hopped Sweet or Foreign Stout can always be entered into the Specialty category. When competitions start receiving several of these for a competition, it would be a good time to make it it's own sub-style. And any competition can add locally defined styles of interest to the local club or brewer. Do it. Talk up West Coast Stout for the SOFB as a new style or category. But a definition of this style needs to be written and published for both the sake (that not Sake, Bruce) of the brewers and the judges. I would ask that if Randy or anyone takes on this task that they create the style description in the form of the current style guide. Dave Houseman --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.84]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC446641AC40 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:54:03 -0500 Received: from user-2inikec.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.81.204] helo=winxp) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16PmxL-0006rp-00; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 07:54:00 -0800 Message-ID: <000b01c19c4a$78e79380$0100a8c0`at`winxp> Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" From: "David Houseman" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: BJCP Exam Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:53:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message This is a reminder that there will be a BJCP exam offered in West Chester, PA on Sunday, March 10th, 1 pm, at the Iron Hill Brewery and Restaurant. Those who wish to take this exam must pre-register with David Houseman (housemanfam`at`earthlink.net or 610-458-0743 and provide a $10 deposit). Dave Houseman SE PA --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from out0.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net ([169.207.1.78]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC447541AD62 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:22:43 -0500 Received: from nm3.voyager.net (coremail.core.com [169.207.3.95]) by out0.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.11.4/8.11.4/1.7) with ESMTP id g0E0Msg20450 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:22:54 -0600 (CST) Received: by nm3.voyager.net (Postfix, from userid 33) id 33BC217C9F; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:21:17 -0600 (CST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: CoreCommMail From: rpaolino`at`execpc.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Cc: Subject: West coast stouts Message-Id: <20020114002117.33BC217C9F`at`nm3.voyager.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:21:17 -0600 (CST) X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message > From: Lyle C. Brown Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:25:18 -0500 > > Randy Paul writes: > > > I'm curious why there is no category for West Coast Stouts? How > > have these > > entries been faring as specialty/experimental (quite different > > competing > > styles), as Porters (wrong roasted malt character), or as Stouts > > (wrong > > hops)? > > One might beg the question of what Randy considers the attributes of a > "West Coast Stout" to be. > > Seems to me we have plenty of varieties of stouts in the subcategories. > Only thing I can think of would be use of West Coast hops. And _lots_ of them. It would be the stout equivalent of American Brown (or at least American Brown before that description got tamed down a little bit. But the west coast isn't the only place you'll find such a thing. Three Floyds (in scenic Munster, Indiana, for those outside the midwest who may not know the brewery) has one that's on it's way to being a NW stout. Now go have a beer, eh --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from celticweb.com ([204.193.152.67]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC447641AE0E for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:56:48 -0500 Received: from jsh.doctorbeer.com [206.15.136.243] by celticweb.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.08) id AAD95176024A; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:56:41 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20020113204418.00ab7640`at`pop.doctorbeer.com> X-Sender: drbeer`at`doctorbeer.com at pop.doctorbeer.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:49:37 -0500 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?= Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Achel In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message > >Apparently, the one Belgian Trappist Monestaries that was not making >beer in the recent past has started making beer commericially (Achel >I think it is). > >Has anyone had their beers? What are they like? I know they sell >only locally, but there are travels among this fellowship and I was >curious. I've had them in 2000 and again in 2001. They are only available at the brewpub itself which is in the town of Hamont/Achel almost literally on the Belgian/Dutch border. As for the beers they were pleasant but uninspiring. Basically a single, a dubble and a tripel that were clean and reasonably true to style except that for my taste they were over hopped. The pub itself is nothing fancy. Basically a portion of an old builing (factory or brick farm barn) that has been renovated with a brick interior courtyard built outside it. Seems to be less of an attraction to ultra zymophiles, and more of a regional/local attraction being in relatively flat part of the country where cycilng is very popular and I got the impression it is also seeking to be a way station for cyclists. If you plan to go to Maastricht or other things in that region it's an OK stop. I wouldn't recommend it as a mandatory pilgrimage :-). Jay H (aka Dr. Beer) Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from celticweb.com ([204.193.152.67]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC447641AE10 for judge`at`synchro.com; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:56:50 -0500 Received: from jsh.doctorbeer.com [206.15.136.243] by celticweb.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.08) id AADC5176024A; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:56:44 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20020113205048.00ac8c70`at`pop.doctorbeer.com> X-Sender: drbeer`at`doctorbeer.com at pop.doctorbeer.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:04:47 -0500 To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jay_Hersh_=28aka_Dr=2E_Beer=AE=29=22?= Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: Paul Gatza and Mark Tumarkin's announcements In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I welcome the news from Paul that the AHA will begin cross linking to the BJCP and routinely including BJCP sanctioned competitions in their publications and listings. This is definitely the type of positive action that demonstrates the type of good intentions myself and other skeptics look for as a sign of detente between the two organizations. It's also a good start as it certainly poses little organizational burden on the BJCP with repsect to cost or implementational burden. I also welcome Mark Tumarkin's announcement regarding recognition of BJCP acheivements at the AHA. I was probably one of the last people to have been recognized in this manner when I received my Master's Pin. I personally thought it was a nice touch since it meant something to me to receive the recognition at the Conference at the same time as other friends and peers received theirs. I think that it will probably be something that other future recipients would be appreciative of, and it too is demonstrative of positive efforts by the AHA. I'd almost say I regret these weren't announced a little sooner since it might have precluded the thread with regard to the relationship between the AHA and BJCP, but actually I think it's good that the thread occurred. It's clear that there are BJCP members and readers of this list that were unaware of certain past history that learned a little about what has transpired. Perhaps there was even some link between the discussion and the announcements. Hopefully there will be more such positive developments. Jay Hersh Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts --Message_Part_SYNC448141AEF1-- --Next_Part_SYNC448141AEF1--