Subject: Digest for the period 3/1/02 - 3/2/02 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:00:25 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC560943B633" --Next_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (Not) awarding places (Spencer W Thomas) A suggestion... (Tyler Yarbrough) From HBD (Bill Wible) --Next_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC560943B633" --Message_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu ([141.213.75.22]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC559543B267 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:43:12 -0500 Received: from hubris.engin.umich.edu (root`at`hubris.engin.umich.edu [207.75.146.24]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21158 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:42:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (spencer`at`localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hubris.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22343 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:42:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200203011642.LAA22343`at`hubris.engin.umich.edu> To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: (Not) awarding places Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:42:54 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I don't know how many of you have sat on a best-of-show panel. I have, and I have had some "1st place" beers that tasted nothing like a good beer of that style should taste. The other judges on the panel agreed in this judgement, so it wasn't just me. We have to assume that the beers in question were the best in their respective flights, but we did wonder whether they deserved the "first place" or "blue ribbon" designation. I distinctly remember a public BOS panel, where we were supposed to make comments about each beer as we tasted it, and where the brewers were very likely sitting in the audience. Well, there was one beer that I could find very little to say about it, so I ended up just describing what the style *should* taste like, and said nothing about the particular beer in front of me. It would have spared all of us some embarrassment (judges and brewer, presumably) if that category had not awarded a first place at all. And, I recall a competition in which I judged back in the mid nineties. This competition had 6 entries in the Bock category. The senior judge on that panel deemed NONE of them as being good enough for an award at all. I think they all got scores under 25 (and recall that 20-24 was "fair" at that time). Since the competition had specified a minimum of 25 points for an award, no awards were given in that category. =Spencer --Message_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.240]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC559643B2A7 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:01:06 -0500 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GSB00CX20LSO9`at`mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:01:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:58:46 -0800 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: A suggestion... To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3C7FB345.9EF0B3EA`at`pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message If the fine folks on this list would take a few more minutes with their posts, I suspect it would be appreciated by all who receive their missives in their email box every day. It seems a lot of people fire off an emotionally charged note, without first making sure it's what they want to say, or that others will understand it correctly when it's read. As a result, we have days and days of corrections, misunderstandings, clarifications, and posts attributed to the wrong writers. Recriminations and personal accusations follow, and the original intent of the thread is lost, especially when we have to delete the bellicose rants surrounding them. I respect every one of your opinions, and know that the people on this list are eloquent communicators. Just read your own writing, and use a little empathy. Or better yet, have someone else read it with you. You'll make your points better, and save us all from having to sort out what you REALLY meant. --Message_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from diskless7.axs2000.net ([209.120.196.45]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC559743B30F for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:20:30 -0500 Received: from [64.80.74.83] (ppp-ptc-pm3-07-035.fiberlynx.net [64.80.74.83]) by diskless7.axs2000.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g21IJKg21750 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:19:24 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:20:22 -0500 Subject: From HBD From: Bill Wible Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message This was posted on HBD today, thought it was a good question: >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:10:37 -0500 >From: Guido Deboeck >Subject: Re Beer styles > >The BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program, Guide to Beer styles for >Home Brew Beer Competitions) defines some 26 beer style categories >(e,g, american lager, european pale lager etc) and within each 3 - 4 >beer styles. > >Does anyone know what this is based on? Some BJCP categories are >tightly defined (e.g the stout contains dry-, sweet-, oatmeal- and >foreign extra stout) however not all stouts are in this category >(e.g. russian imperial stout is under barley wines) or are very broad >(e.g. fruit beers, which can be based on almost any type of beer with >fruit added to it...) > >Does anyone know about a more rigorous classification of beer styles? > >Thanks in advance. >Guido > >e:mail: gdeboeck`at`erols.com I don't actually know what the BJCP styles are "based" on. I would guess historical beers, references to beers in historical texts, regional favorite styles, etc. If our job is to help our fellow brewers, could someone take a shot at answering this guy? I'm kind of interested in this myself. I also a question about organization of categories. I was surprised recently when I noticed that Witbier is not included with the other wheat beers, but is organized under Belgian & French Ales. it seems that the only wheat beers in "Wheat Beers" are German Wheat Beers. The argument that the categories should be organized historically is one point of view, but surely a case could be made that similar styles should be grouped together. Witbier would certainly be no more out of place among the wheat beers than Berliner Weisse is. Bill -------------------------- Brew By You 3504 Cottman Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19149 215-335-BREW (PA) 888-542-BREW (Outside PA) 215-335-0712 (Fax) www.brewbyyou.net --------------------------- --Message_Part_SYNC560943B633-- --Next_Part_SYNC560943B633-- Subject: Digest for the period 3/1/02 - 3/2/02 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:00:25 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC560943B633" --Next_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (Not) awarding places (Spencer W Thomas) A suggestion... (Tyler Yarbrough) From HBD (Bill Wible) --Next_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Message_Part_SYNC560943B633" --Message_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu ([141.213.75.22]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC559543B267 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:43:12 -0500 Received: from hubris.engin.umich.edu (root`at`hubris.engin.umich.edu [207.75.146.24]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21158 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:42:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (spencer`at`localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hubris.engin.umich.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22343 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:42:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200203011642.LAA22343`at`hubris.engin.umich.edu> To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Subject: (Not) awarding places Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:42:54 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message I don't know how many of you have sat on a best-of-show panel. I have, and I have had some "1st place" beers that tasted nothing like a good beer of that style should taste. The other judges on the panel agreed in this judgement, so it wasn't just me. We have to assume that the beers in question were the best in their respective flights, but we did wonder whether they deserved the "first place" or "blue ribbon" designation. I distinctly remember a public BOS panel, where we were supposed to make comments about each beer as we tasted it, and where the brewers were very likely sitting in the audience. Well, there was one beer that I could find very little to say about it, so I ended up just describing what the style *should* taste like, and said nothing about the particular beer in front of me. It would have spared all of us some embarrassment (judges and brewer, presumably) if that category had not awarded a first place at all. And, I recall a competition in which I judged back in the mid nineties. This competition had 6 entries in the Bock category. The senior judge on that panel deemed NONE of them as being good enough for an award at all. I think they all got scores under 25 (and recall that 20-24 was "fair" at that time). Since the competition had specified a minimum of 25 points for an award, no awards were given in that category. =Spencer --Message_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.240]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC559643B2A7 for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:01:06 -0500 Received: from pacbell.net ([63.198.47.148]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GSB00CX20LSO9`at`mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for judge at synchro.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:01:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:58:46 -0800 From: Tyler Yarbrough Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com Subject: A suggestion... To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-id: <3C7FB345.9EF0B3EA`at`pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD PBI-NC461 (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message If the fine folks on this list would take a few more minutes with their posts, I suspect it would be appreciated by all who receive their missives in their email box every day. It seems a lot of people fire off an emotionally charged note, without first making sure it's what they want to say, or that others will understand it correctly when it's read. As a result, we have days and days of corrections, misunderstandings, clarifications, and posts attributed to the wrong writers. Recriminations and personal accusations follow, and the original intent of the thread is lost, especially when we have to delete the bellicose rants surrounding them. I respect every one of your opinions, and know that the people on this list are eloquent communicators. Just read your own writing, and use a little empathy. Or better yet, have someone else read it with you. You'll make your points better, and save us all from having to sort out what you REALLY meant. --Message_Part_SYNC560943B633 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from diskless7.axs2000.net ([209.120.196.45]) by synchro.com with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.6.1176) id SYNC559743B30F for judge`at`synchro.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:20:30 -0500 Received: from [64.80.74.83] (ppp-ptc-pm3-07-035.fiberlynx.net [64.80.74.83]) by diskless7.axs2000.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g21IJKg21750 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:19:24 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:20:22 -0500 Subject: From HBD From: Bill Wible Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner`at`synchro.com Sender: judge`at`synchro.com To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message This was posted on HBD today, thought it was a good question: >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:10:37 -0500 >From: Guido Deboeck >Subject: Re Beer styles > >The BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program, Guide to Beer styles for >Home Brew Beer Competitions) defines some 26 beer style categories >(e,g, american lager, european pale lager etc) and within each 3 - 4 >beer styles. > >Does anyone know what this is based on? Some BJCP categories are >tightly defined (e.g the stout contains dry-, sweet-, oatmeal- and >foreign extra stout) however not all stouts are in this category >(e.g. russian imperial stout is under barley wines) or are very broad >(e.g. fruit beers, which can be based on almost any type of beer with >fruit added to it...) > >Does anyone know about a more rigorous classification of beer styles? > >Thanks in advance. >Guido > >e:mail: gdeboeck`at`erols.com I don't actually know what the BJCP styles are "based" on. I would guess historical beers, references to beers in historical texts, regional favorite styles, etc. If our job is to help our fellow brewers, could someone take a shot at answering this guy? I'm kind of interested in this myself. I also a question about organization of categories. I was surprised recently when I noticed that Witbier is not included with the other wheat beers, but is organized under Belgian & French Ales. it seems that the only wheat beers in "Wheat Beers" are German Wheat Beers. The argument that the categories should be organized historically is one point of view, but surely a case could be made that similar styles should be grouped together. Witbier would certainly be no more out of place among the wheat beers than Berliner Weisse is. Bill -------------------------- Brew By You 3504 Cottman Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19149 215-335-BREW (PA) 888-542-BREW (Outside PA) 215-335-0712 (Fax) www.brewbyyou.net --------------------------- --Message_Part_SYNC560943B633-- --Next_Part_SYNC560943B633--