Subject: Digest for the period 5/20/2003 - 5/21/2003 Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:04:07 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: Digest for the period 5/18/2003 - 5/19/2003 (Spencer W. Thomas) 2. Re: AHA problems (John C. Tull) 3. AHA 1st Round Judging; Singleton Entries; etc. (Drew Beechum) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Spencer W. Thomas Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:11:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 5/18/2003 - 5/19/2003 Alavert and Claritin are chemically identical. (Loratidine.) They are antihistimines, and will reduce congestion due to allergic-type reactions, by preventing its occurrence. Claritin-D adds a decongestant (I'm not sure which one) to standard Claritin. =Spencer >From: Mike Dixon Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 08:28:42 -0400 >Subject: Re: Decongestants > > > > >Claritin is an allergy medication ... it's standard form >is not a decongestant. I switched for other reasons to Alavert. > > > ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John C. Tull Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:43:59 -0700 Subject: Re: AHA problems I am relieved to hear that this no longer occurs. It was my impression from others that judged in the past that his did occur. Past tense, hopefully, for all regions. The points regarding storage, cellaring, and organizational issues are all well taken. Certainly errors will occur with multiple bottles from time to time, but probably not much more likely than the confusion that will (and does) occur no matter how many bottles are used. So the debate seems to revolve around the logistics of 2 bottles in round 1 rather than the merits of a 2-bottle competition. Cheers, John On Sunday, May 18, 2003, at 22:03 US/Pacific, JudgeNet - the beer judge digest wrote: >> >> Another huge problem is that large categories are split and placement >> is given based on scores. Scores are great, but they vary tremendously >> from table to table (my 38 may be the next table's 45). > > This is not the case. In split flights, placements are assigned based > on the tasteoff, not score. Judges send 1, 2, or 3 beers depending on > the quality of their flight (usually 2) Since the flights were so huge > this year I received LOTS of questions about this from entrants. I > don't > think any beer got beat by another by a spread of more than 5 points, > though. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Drew Beechum Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AHA 1st Round Judging; Singleton Entries; etc. Folks, Well, I can speak to Jay's experience as I was the other judge going toe to toe with Jay over the placement of the beers in the Mini-BOS. We went into the Mini-BOS with 6 entries total from the whole flight and proceeded to judge the entries. 3 entries fell out of contention pretty quickly after some debating. We were left with 2 BoHo Pils and a Munich Helles. Here's where we ran into issues that could have been easily solved with a second bottle. Both the 1st Place BoHo and the Helles which had (to their respective judging teams) been their top beers of the flight had lost an amazing amount of their luster. The BoHo tasted great, but smelled like someone had used 3 year Saaz hops that were stored in a paper bag over the oven. The Helles had dropped all of it lively malt aromas on the floor and basically smelled DOA. Both beers now had flaws in them that were exposed by the dead nose. (The second BoHo also was suffering issues at the time and had no passionate supporters.) So you can imagine the debate raging at the table. Needless to say, it was quite heated and annoying and took everyone at the table time to cool down after wards and apologize to each other. (Yes.. it was a table of hot heads.) All of this because we had no second bottle with which to confirm our fellow judges assertions about the beers as judged initially. I understand the appeal of one bottle for the 1st round and the appeal of 2 bottles for regular competitions, but there needs to be a better way to get to the heart of the mini-bos system with only one bottle for a prelim. One solution might be to have the bottles immediately re-capped upon pour and dropped straight back into the coolers. Only after the confirmation that the beer not be saved for a mini-BOS would the bottle be released to the stewards table. (I think if we refused the stews beer much after that they'd have our heads) I'll second the note that I rambled too long (someone out there is making it.) and I'll see you folks in Chicago. -- Drew Beechum > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: jack kephart Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 07:33:53 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: NHC 1st round, two bottles, ect > > Jay, > > I know for the 1st round East regional we tried to > recap and re-fridge all potential entries from > multiple table/flight categories for the "Mini-BOS" > judging that determined the final placing (I believe > this is standard 1st round procedure). > > I suppose you could argue that beers judged later in > the flights "may" have a advantage in the mini-BOS due > to sitting less time, but if they are recapped and > kept cool I think this is negligible. > > As for John Tull's concerns about huge split flight categories being > determined by the score assigned at different tables, that shouldn't > happen. > > The process of avoiding this issue is precicley why we > are having the current debate about the 1st round > judging procedures. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** Subject: Digest for the period 5/20/2003 - 5/21/2003 Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:04:07 -0400 Table of contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Re: Digest for the period 5/18/2003 - 5/19/2003 (Spencer W. Thomas) 2. Re: AHA problems (John C. Tull) 3. AHA 1st Round Judging; Singleton Entries; etc. (Drew Beechum) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Spencer W. Thomas Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:11:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 5/18/2003 - 5/19/2003 Alavert and Claritin are chemically identical. (Loratidine.) They are antihistimines, and will reduce congestion due to allergic-type reactions, by preventing its occurrence. Claritin-D adds a decongestant (I'm not sure which one) to standard Claritin. =Spencer >From: Mike Dixon Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 08:28:42 -0400 >Subject: Re: Decongestants > > > > >Claritin is an allergy medication ... it's standard form >is not a decongestant. I switched for other reasons to Alavert. > > > ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John C. Tull Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:43:59 -0700 Subject: Re: AHA problems I am relieved to hear that this no longer occurs. It was my impression from others that judged in the past that his did occur. Past tense, hopefully, for all regions. The points regarding storage, cellaring, and organizational issues are all well taken. Certainly errors will occur with multiple bottles from time to time, but probably not much more likely than the confusion that will (and does) occur no matter how many bottles are used. So the debate seems to revolve around the logistics of 2 bottles in round 1 rather than the merits of a 2-bottle competition. Cheers, John On Sunday, May 18, 2003, at 22:03 US/Pacific, JudgeNet - the beer judge digest wrote: >> >> Another huge problem is that large categories are split and placement >> is given based on scores. Scores are great, but they vary tremendously >> from table to table (my 38 may be the next table's 45). > > This is not the case. In split flights, placements are assigned based > on the tasteoff, not score. Judges send 1, 2, or 3 beers depending on > the quality of their flight (usually 2) Since the flights were so huge > this year I received LOTS of questions about this from entrants. I > don't > think any beer got beat by another by a spread of more than 5 points, > though. ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * ********************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Drew Beechum Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AHA 1st Round Judging; Singleton Entries; etc. Folks, Well, I can speak to Jay's experience as I was the other judge going toe to toe with Jay over the placement of the beers in the Mini-BOS. We went into the Mini-BOS with 6 entries total from the whole flight and proceeded to judge the entries. 3 entries fell out of contention pretty quickly after some debating. We were left with 2 BoHo Pils and a Munich Helles. Here's where we ran into issues that could have been easily solved with a second bottle. Both the 1st Place BoHo and the Helles which had (to their respective judging teams) been their top beers of the flight had lost an amazing amount of their luster. The BoHo tasted great, but smelled like someone had used 3 year Saaz hops that were stored in a paper bag over the oven. The Helles had dropped all of it lively malt aromas on the floor and basically smelled DOA. Both beers now had flaws in them that were exposed by the dead nose. (The second BoHo also was suffering issues at the time and had no passionate supporters.) So you can imagine the debate raging at the table. Needless to say, it was quite heated and annoying and took everyone at the table time to cool down after wards and apologize to each other. (Yes.. it was a table of hot heads.) All of this because we had no second bottle with which to confirm our fellow judges assertions about the beers as judged initially. I understand the appeal of one bottle for the 1st round and the appeal of 2 bottles for regular competitions, but there needs to be a better way to get to the heart of the mini-bos system with only one bottle for a prelim. One solution might be to have the bottles immediately re-capped upon pour and dropped straight back into the coolers. Only after the confirmation that the beer not be saved for a mini-BOS would the bottle be released to the stewards table. (I think if we refused the stews beer much after that they'd have our heads) I'll second the note that I rambled too long (someone out there is making it.) and I'll see you folks in Chicago. -- Drew Beechum > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: jack kephart Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 07:33:53 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: NHC 1st round, two bottles, ect > > Jay, > > I know for the 1st round East regional we tried to > recap and re-fridge all potential entries from > multiple table/flight categories for the "Mini-BOS" > judging that determined the final placing (I believe > this is standard 1st round procedure). > > I suppose you could argue that beers judged later in > the flights "may" have a advantage in the mini-BOS due > to sitting less time, but if they are recapped and > kept cool I think this is negligible. > > As for John Tull's concerns about huge split flight categories being > determined by the score assigned at different tables, that shouldn't > happen. > > The process of avoiding this issue is precicley why we > are having the current debate about the 1st round > judging procedures. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ********************************************************************** * JudgeNet - the beer judge digest * * Send plain text only, no HTML, MIME, encoded text or attachments * * Send subscription requests & changes to judge-request`at`synchro.com * **********************************************************************